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Intuitive Conversations with Doug

Intuitive Conversations with Doug

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    Intuitive Conversations with Doug
    Ep. 197•April 14, 2026•1h 21m

    197 | From IT Manager to Saving Lives: Ian Westmoreland on Men's Mental Health & Purpose

    In this episode, we sit down with Ian Westmoreland, a former IT project manager who walked away from a high-paying corporate career to find his true "why" at age 59 and a half. Ian shares the remarkable "synchronicity" of reading a book on a train that changed the course of his life to the day, leading him to found Mentoring Men, a national movement providing free one-to-one life mentoring for Australian men. We dive deep into his journey from the corporate world to community impact, his battle with stage four cancer, and the birth of Kintsugi Heroes—a storytelling platform dedicated to those who have overcome adversity. Key Moments • The turning point: Why Ian left a 40-year IT career to focus on community impact. • Life Mentoring vs. Business Mentoring: Why listening is more powerful than advice. • The founding of Mentoring Men and the mission to support men through life's challenges. • The 59.5-year-old epiphany: A literal life-changing moment on a Sydney train. • Resilience in the face of Stage 4 Cancer and the power of gratitude during recovery. • Moving past judgment: Understanding the underlying causes of addiction and homelessness. • Redefining success: Why a blue-collar worker with love is more successful than a billionaire. • The birth of Kintsugi Heroes and the power of sharing stories of adversity. Notable Quotes: • "Life mentoring is predominantly listening—90% listening, supporting, and encouraging."  • "The two most important days in your life are the day you're born and the day you work out why." — Mark Twain (cited by Ian)  • "I'd rather have a purpose than a Porsche." — Rugby League Legend (cited by Ian)  Guest Bio:  Ian Westmoreland spent over four decades in the telecommunications and energy sectors before transitioning to full-time community service. He is the founder of Mentoring Men and Kintsugi Heroes, and was awarded the Medal of the Order of Australia (OAM) in 2024 for his dedication to supporting men's mental health and wellbeing. Keywords: Men's Mental Health, Mentoring Men Australia, Finding Purpose After 50, Ian Westmoreland, Kintsugi Heroes, Life Mentoring vs Business Mentoring, Overcoming Adversity, Podcast for Men, Suicide Prevention Australia, Authentic Connection Connect with Ian Westmoreland https://www.facebook.com/IanCWestmoreland LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-westmoreland-mentor-menshealth/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/iwestmoreland1003/ Email -   ian@kintsugiheroes.com.au Connect with Doug Beitz: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dougbeitz/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dougbeitz/ Website: https://buymeacoffee.com/dougbeitz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6mQ258nugC3lyw3SpvYuoK?si=7cec409527d34438 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/intuitive-conversations-with-doug/id1593172364 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/doug-beitz-472a4b338/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dougbeitz178 📍 Podcast Host: Doug Beitz  📌 Subscribe for more conversations exploring intuition, consciousness, and the unseen science behind healing.  👍 Like & share if this episode resonated with you. Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Intro: The Kintsugi Metaphor (Finding Beauty in Brokenness) 00:01:01 – Meet Ian Westmoreland (OAM): From IT Manager to Community Leader 00:02:37 – The 2013 Turning Point: Leaving Corporate Life for Impact 00:03:40 – High School Mentoring: A Life-Changing Encounter in Sydney 00:04:47 – Life Mentoring vs. Business Mentoring: Why Listening is Everything 00:06:20 – The "59 and a Half" Synchronicity: The Book That Changed Everything 00:09:43 – Following the Signs: Starting the Raise Foundation Mentoring Course 00:11:43 – Remission and Resilience: Lessons from a 3-Year Cancer Journey 00:12:48 – Benevolent Forces: The Power of Interconnectedness and Purpose 00:14:44 – How Mentoring Changes You: Becoming Less Judgmental 00:15:35 – Finding Your "Why": The Mark Twain Quote on Life Purpose 00:16:24 – The Greek Islands Story: Redefining True Success Beyond Money 00:18:35 – Visualizing Your "Best Life" vs. Materialistic Distractions 00:20:25 – Life as an Employer: Rewarding Extra Effort and Initiative 00:24:20 – The Birth of Kintsugi Heroes: Storytelling for Healing 00:34:33 – Truth and Perspective in Media: Navigating Modern Information 00:38:48 – New Dreams: Re-establishing Community and Combatting Isolation 00:42:46 – The Decline of In-Person Connection in the Digital Age 00:50:51 – Resilience in Action: Finishing the Ride with Broken Ribs 00:54:50 – Stepping Out of Comfort Zones: Ian's Stand-Up Comedy Debut 01:00:50 – Lighthearted Moments: The Broccoli Joke 01:03:39 – Community Dynamics: acreage living and Facebook group shifts 01:04:42 – The Changing Rules of Communication: Why We Text Before Calling 01:06:37 – The Importance of Impromptu Kindness and Physical Connection 01:08:35 – Nostalgia: Life Before the Telephone and Personal Accountability 01:16:16 – Personal History: Meeting his Wife and 42 Years of Marriage 01:18:08 – Closing Story: Traveling Montana and National Park Adventures 01:20:00 – Wrap Up and Final Remarks on Gratitude

    Transcript

    0:00

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    0:30

    His mum was had an addiction and was in and out of rehab. He was living with his grandparents, which he hated. And then he just turned and he looked me in the eyes and he started crying and he said, ian, help me. He said, kintsugi. I said, I've never heard of it, but when I looked into it. So for those who don't know, Kintsugi is that Japanese craft where they take broken pottery and they put it back together using a precious metal like gold. And the repaired product is far more beautiful, far more valuable than the original piece. Crying with gratitude, I can't explain it. For the hot water, for the hospital and the medical system we have in Australia. And that attitude continued on all the way through that.

    1:21

    Welcome to the podcast that guides men to demystify and develop their intuition. I'm your host, Doug Bytes. Lets dig into the science and expand your horizons. Most men lead lives of quiet desperation. Today's guest decided to build a movement to change that. Our guest is Ian Westmoreland. He spent more than four decades working in the telecommunications and energy sectors across Australia and New Zealand, mostly as an IT project manager. But in 2013, he recognised what became a critical turning point that led him to step away from corporate life and focus on community impact. In 2018, he founded Mentoring Men, a non profit organisation that provides free one to one mentoring for Australian men who are facing life challenges. The program has since grown into a national movement promoting wellbeing, resilience and authentic connection.

    2:22

    He also founded Kinsinki Heroes, a storytelling platform that shares real life stories of people who've overcome adversity. In recognition of his work supporting men and young people, Ian was awarded the Medal of the Order of Australia in the 2024 King's Birthday Honors. Ian, welcome to the podcast.

    2:44

    G' day Doug. Thank you for the opportunity to chat to you.

    2:47

    Yeah, it's going to be good. And now setting up these organizations, mentoring men to start with. I guess I've heard the story myself before. Listening to other podcasts that you've been on. But please share with the guests what was this amazing turning point in your life?

    3:07

    I guess the first turning point was in 2013. I was increasingly thinking there's more to life than just making money and delivering software changes. I was working as an IT project manager and on 10th September 2013 I got on the train to come to work. I continued to read a book that my youngest daughter had given me and what I read that morning transformed the thinking for the rest of my life. In May 2014 I quit my high paid job as an IT manager to start giving back to the community, a strong focus just on doing that. I started off mentoring kids in high schools through the Rays foundation in Sydney High Schools. In addition to that, I signed up to mentor kids in primary schools as well and even got involved in a third mentoring program aimed around just supporting the community in general.

    4:10

    In 2018 I was mentoring a young guy in one of the Sydney high schools and he shared with me that his father had suicided, his mum had an addiction and was in and out of rehab. He was living with his grandparents, which he hated. And then he just turned and he looked me in the eyes and he started crying and he said, ian, help me and what can you do as part of these? I would meet this guy once a week at the high school for an hour and we would just talk and maybe go for a walk. I debriefed with the program counselor at the end of the mentoring session and explained what had gone on. Everything's confidential other than what you share with the counselor, explaining what was going on, looking for advice and she just, she asked me, you okay? And I just started crying over the situation as well. And I was flat for a couple of months.

    5:17

    Then I realized I would benefit from having a life mentor just like the mentoring I'd been provided to all these kids in primary school and high school. I should explain when you say the word mentor, I define as two different types of mentoring. Business mentoring, Life mentoring. Most people default to business mentoring and business mentoring is someone with acquired skills and knowledge and experience who guides and directs, advises someone else. And that's nothing to do with what I was doing. In my view, life mentoring is predominantly listening. 90% listening, supporting, encouraging. People aren't broken, they don't need fixing, they don't need us to give advice. We haven't got their lived experience. But it's incredibly powerful when you know you're being listened to. So after a couple of months I looked around for the nearest organization that provided life mentoring to men.

    6:22

    And surprisingly and incredibly disappointingly, I couldn't find any organization like that. So it motivated me to start mentoring men. And we launched in November 2018. So it's a free program. We train up or men, volunteer men like me to support other men going through life challenges. So that was what, the trigger for starting Metroid Men.

    6:50

    Yeah. Beautiful. And so I've heard your story. You're talking about reading the book on the train. And there's. There's a. Because the podcast is about intuition. And with that, I like to bring synchronicities in our lives in. Could you just continue to tell that story a little bit like the significance of when you were reading that book on the train, the timing of your life and what the book said?

    7:18

    Well, okay. So there. And I'm not sure if it's intuition. It could be. I feel everything I do is secular, but I feel for me, I'm a Christian, and there's. There's something external to me that is shining the light down a path, and I can choose whether I go down there or not. So we moved. I've got four kids early on in our marriage who really struggle financially. I'd be working multiple jobs. I'd get home. My wife would go after Denny's restaurant, and she was cleaning houses. That was a certain situation we're in. But later on, that situation improved. Never been a multimillionaire, but we'd acquired sufficient material possessions, and that was no longer a major issue for us. So in 2013, as I said, I thought, look, there's got to be more to life than just doing this. I'm working hard, always worked hard, but there's got to be more meaning to this. And then on the 10th of September, 20, 2013, that was a key date.

    8:24

    I've got the book here in a second. So what I read was a Christian book by Steve Ferguson. Standstill. And on that day, the day is important. 10th of September 2013, he questioned the role of Christians in society. And he started listing these things, and I was ticking them off as I went along. And it's like, we feel like we're doing our part as long as we live decent lives. Tick. I was a bit of a rascal as a kid, but I was sort of living a decent life. Then he said, stay out of trouble, Tick. Pay taxes. Tick. Have babies tickets. I've had four make a living. And I've done that. Buy a boat. I even had a boat. And then he said, and I'm reading this. Hit age 59 and a half. Collect retirement die. So I've gone through all those. I was born on the 10th of March, 1954. I was 59 and a half to the day that I read that.

    9:31

    Now, I've shared that hundreds of times, and people, oh, coincidence, whatever to them, but that and Doug, I don't know whether you call this intuition, but it certainly got my attention. Two days.

    9:46

    I would call it a synchronicity. And I got like tingles all over me. And I've heard you say it several times before on podcasts, so it was nothing new for me to hear it. I got tingles and like, all over my skin. I would call it a synchronicity where there is something shining, a light somewhere someone wanted you to those words to jump out on the page to you. If I'd have read it, it may not have jumped out in the slightest. But you read it and it jumped out.

    10:14

    Yeah, well, I checked with Americans. So you retire at 59. No one else had ever heard of that before. And so they don't retire at 59 and a half. And then two or three days later, my wife and I went out a Saturday morning up to Macca's to have a coffee. Sitting at the table, she sees a woman on another table with her husband and she knows the woman. She goes over there and started chatting. When she came back, I said, who's that? And it turned out it was the scripture teacher at my daughter who gave me the book school. So this lady taught scriptures to my daughter. So I went home and just said hello. And what came from this woman was this incredible goodness, kindness. And she shared a couple of things. This is two or three days after this event. The first thing was she and her husband were supporting a program for young mums, teenage unmarried moms, essentially.

    11:13

    And they would just give them love, they put on brunch, and they'd just be there to support them and they couldn't keep up with demand. And I said, well, I've got this message to do something, I don't know what it is, but to make some more meaningful thing in my life. So we signed up to fund that program for several years afterwards, a program still running. The second thing she mentioned to me was the Raise mentoring course. So my wife and I went along and trained to become RAISE mentors and all the way along these steps. So the first one, 59 and a half on the 10th of September, meeting, that woman and I talked, shared before, about this young guy I was mentoring in high school and throughout the last 12 years of being a full time volunteer, these things just keep coming up. And I like the synchronous.

    12:08

    I can't even say it, but the synchronicity.

    12:12

    Yeah, synchronicity. But it's. So I've got a mind that's open to these sorts of things and maybe we'll get into it later on, but I've just come out of a three year cancer journey and basically in December and February, the medical fraternity said, look, there's nothing we can do for you. So stage four cancer, there's nothing we can do. We've got no other thing that we can offer you. And about four weeks ago, I was advised I'm in remission. And all through that journey, I just powered on. I kept doing Kintsugi hero stuff. I just love life, full of gratitude. And I can't explain it doesn't make sense logically, but here I am today and still loving life.

    12:59

    I love that you just said it doesn't make sense logically because there's men sitting out there listening now to your story and they go, why the heck did that happen to Ian? Why has he had all this stuff fall in his lap and his life feels good and all that? Why can't I find those sort of things? You took action like you're talking about something there. Shining a light on things for you to see. I'll take it a step further and I don't want anyone to feel like they need to believe what I believe. But I believe there is invisible. And you said something there you can't see, so you don't know what it is. Benevolent forces who love us and they're constantly trying to get messages to us, tell us things, show us things that will. And why are they trying to show us? My. My feeling would be one, to help benefit us, two, to help us benefit others. You know, it's because we're all interconnected.

    13:56

    And the story you told there of that book, you know, you're 59 and a half to the day and it's just a slap in the head. It's like, turn 59 and a half and die. And you're like, I've just started living like I've been working for 40 years, like, I am not going to die. And that's not the message that was trying to get you. It was like, you know, do something. And you had a mini revelation, an epiphany, some sort of sense inside whatever happened. And off you went. And because you started following it, these benevolent forces are like, oh, we've got a live one over here. But this one, this one, this one out of the 7 million that I'm looking after, finally did something get some high? Need some help? Let's get it. Let's throw some other stuff in his lap. And so now Ian's had these other things dropped in his lap because he's. He's a goer. He's got the message. He can see the light. And. And so other things drop in your lap.

    14:54

    You meet people, things happen. Yeah. I love it.

    14:57

    Yeah, look. The last 12 years, the have been incredibly fulfilling. I've learned. I learned so much from these young guys that I mentored. I could give you story after story of the wisdom I picked up from that. From all of the last 12 years, I've become. I'm confident to say I've become a much more loving, less judgmental person. I've learned my ignorance. In some ways, we as a society, we focus on symptoms. That person's homeless, that person's got an addiction or whatever. We don't. We're not good at trying to understand the underlying causes of these things. We go straight into judgment. And no one sets out to become an addict. But what we've seen through the configure hero stories, they often could be sexual abuse. There could be some other reason that's led them to that. And coming back, one of the. I love a lot of Mark Twain quotes, but one that I, in fact I've got on in a presentation I do.

    15:59

    The two most important days in your life are the day you're born and then the day you work out why. And for me, 10th of September 2013 was one of the why things for me. And it's, It's. Yeah, it's been an incredible ride and hopefully there's a lot more to go. But, you know, what will be will then.

    16:22

    So that's just. That Mark Twain quote is just sense of purpose, like the day you work out. What is. And they say that, that people who have a sense of purpose enjoy their life more. They, you know, it's less likely to fall into addiction. Less likely to, you know, have things that. Not that they won't have it, but. Or if something happens, they're more likely to be able to see a way through it because they don't see it as a bigger problem as others.

    16:54

    Yeah. Can I share a story? That really impulsed me and it helped shape where I was going and my understanding of where I was going. So my wife and I are keen bike riders. And so we jumped on this looked like a group pirate ship. And we went around, around the Greek islands with a bunch of other people on bikes. And the boat would stop at an island, unload all the bikes and we would follow the tour guide on his E bike, this young guy on an E bike, we're pedaling, but anyway, and we come to this island and we climb up a bit of a mountain to a vantage point where we can look out over other island. He gathers around us, that gathers us around him and he starts to tell us the success story of Aristotle Onassis. Now most of the young people wouldn't know who Aristotle Onassis is, but he shared that Onassis and his family were at one point poor, impoverished. So he started making money in the black market with tobacco.

    17:57

    And then he had some sort of innovation around packaged cigarettes and made a lot more money. And then he got into shipping and he became the richest man in the world. At one point, many people didn't know, the Americans didn't know who he was until he then pointed out that he married JFK's widow, Jackie Onassis. And he told it like a success story. And at the end of it he said he was rumored an asses was rumored to have said, people say money can buy love. I want to tell you it's not true. I'm the richest man in the world and I've never found true love. And I couldn't help myself. I put up my hand and I said, look, I want a question. You've told this as a story of Greek success. You've got a guy who's invented a product that's killed millions of people and caused untold damage to millions more and never found true love. I would argue that some blue collar worker with loving relationships is far more successful than a narcissist or was.

    19:01

    And when I got back to Australia, jet lagged, I woke up and I thought, I put things into pictures and I what was getting what? What's our best life? I came up with my definition where we use our skills and experiences to positively impact the world. On the other side of the diagram, okay, we're born and I believe we start heading towards the best life. But there's a word map above that of the things that happen to us. We get abused, we get sick, we have relationships, fall apart, impacted by social media and one of the big things, through marketing campaigns or whatever, we get driven to this materialistic life. We lose sight of what our best life, where we're going to get Fulfillment. And we go down a path, path that's almost been. We've been driven to do for external, selfish purposes. And I say to people, I did this diagram for my benefit, but just for 10 seconds, please just take a step back. Think, what would your best life look like?

    20:13

    Are you heading down that way at the moment? And I've got the quotes, the quote I mentioned before, the Mark Twain quote, I've got a few others there. He was so poor, all he had was money. And one of our Katiki heroes, rugby league legend in Sydney, shared, I'd rather have a purpose than a Porsche. So I encourage people maybe to think about the best life. And I understand I was poor, we had to make money doing multiple jobs and all that sort of stuff. But I believe every one of us has a. A meaningful purpose and it's where we're going to get fulfillment. And I just, I just challenge people, maybe have a think about that.

    20:56

    Yeah, it's. I guess I can equate it a little bit to. If you work for an employer and you put in the extra effort, you ask questions, you make suggestions, the employer's like, oh, this is a handy little worker. I'm going to. I want to keep them. So they offer you extra incentive. They thought, would you like to go away for a week and do this training course and get this new skill? Oh, wow. You know, and so they're being sort of groomed up because they, because the boss knows they're going to do something with that information when they come back, you know, and so it's in a similar way, our invisible employer out there, whoever that may be, sees us. Same thing, has a sense of purpose. We're putting in the extra effort. And they're like, oh, I can't sort of say in Ian's ear, would you like to have this extra training?

    21:50

    You know, the course that you said your wife and you went, went and did for counsel, you know, for mentoring, that was, obviously benefited both of you. And, you know, half an hour before you met that lady, neither of you were probably thinking about doing that, but the, you know, this benevolent, invisible force had you synchronistically come across this lady's path. And she spoke the words, you know, like, da, da, da. And like, you know, have the thought. And you're thinking, that's my idea. I want to go and do it. And off we go, and our life seems so blessed. But it's not that different to an employer who you speak words with, you know, because they can see your effort and they offer you reward, they offer you whatever you know you need. So it's. Life's wonderful when we put it together and we have that sense of purpose and we follow through.

    22:45

    Yeah, Doug, thanks for raising that. One of the points that came to mind when you talked about that was the. In the commercial world, the attitude I took to the team around me as well, they weren't resources, they were people. And we shared births and marriages and deaths through that process. And I don't know, I guess love is a soft term, but I left paid work 12 years ago when I was in hospital potentially dying last year, these same people reached out to me. Gifts would arrive. I had a Staying Alive party two weeks ago, and these people turned up. So it's so important that we don't just treat people as a commodity, but treat them with love and respect and do it because it's the right thing to do. But it also pays dividends. Generally, those people will, you know, they'll perform better. I want to be part of the team. Um, so. But it's. It's the right thing. And those connections, I'm still in contact. They still ask for advice on. On things.

    23:57

    So. So I. I think we should treat people that way in a lot of the corporate environments I was at. So I worked for some of the biggest companies in Australia in my IT management role, but there was a lack of authenticity. There was a facade that was often put on. It's almost like a competitive environment. In Consider Heroes, our team is over 50 people, but there's a caring, nurturing environment and people still feel encouraged to make suggestions. And I pay, and I don't think that's the right. I think we can do better than fantastic, you know, and it's that sort of attitude. Commercial organizations had that sort of attitude led from the top. They would be much more efficient organizations.

    24:43

    Yeah. So you bring up Kinsingi Heroes. Tell us how that was birthed and where it's going.

    24:51

    So at the end of 2021, mentoring them was booming. It was growing exponentially in every area. Number of people being trained, the finances, everything. And we had sufficient money to put in place a paid team. And whatever I do, I do with a passion. I love the work I was doing, but I was doing it seven days a week long hours a day. And my family getting a bit annoyed. That's understated with what I was doing. I've got 13 beautiful grandkids and it's like sometimes I miss family functions because I had other work stuff to do. Anyway, so at the end of 2021, I stepped aside for mentoring, then put in place a team. And after three months off, I decided to progress an idea that came to me back in 1993. And just to set the scene. As a teenager, I suffered for a lot of lack of confidence, self esteem. I remember setting a goal as a teenager. If I could just be average, how good would that be?

    26:00

    And later on, I'd seen the power of storytelling, the Nelson Mandela type stories to positively impact, to build that confidence. Well, look at what they've gone through. And in August 93, I've still got the letter I wrote to some community leaders saying around this idea of using storytelling. Back then I thought it had to be famous people who'd overcome adversity, share their stories to give hope and inspiration to the beings of the world. One of the guys I wrote to was Dick Smith, who took the time to send me back a handwritten note and said, ian, this is a great idea. And then he said, you do it. He signed it off Dick Smith. And so it waited till the end of 2021. And I thought, I've got to do this now. By that stage, I built up a fairly strong network, particularly in the Men's Health space. And one of those guys came to me, said, Ian. I told him everyone what I was going to do. He said, I've got the name for your project.

    27:02

    And I said, well, what is it? He said, kintsugi. I said, I've never heard of it, but when I looked into it. So for those who don't know, Kintsugi is that Japanese craft where they take broken pottery and they put it back together using a precious metal like gold. And the repair product is far more beautiful, far more valuable than the original piece. I'll repeat that. Far more beautiful and valuable than original piece.

    27:27

    And for those who aren't on YouTube, Ian was just holding up a piece of pottery that had the seams repaired with gold or that. Yeah.

    27:36

    And what a brilliant metaphor to helping people reframe and see the value in that lived experience, that addiction, that abuse, that trauma, relationship breakdown, grief, disability, and a whole bunch of other things. So Kintsugi highlights the value of the scars that we acquire over time. So my three year cancer journey, I've got physical scars as well as a lot of lived experience of doing that, but it's giving a much better insight. There's a lot of value in going through that journey. So we record stories like what we're doing now, Doug, and we've done getting close to 400 now and then we publish those stories through YouTube, through audio platforms, through radio platforms, through books, events and stuff like that. We actually. There's one Kugi master in Australia, Jun, he actually runs these workshops and he's. We've got him to come in and run the workshops for some of the events that we're running.

    28:44

    Nice, nice. So just tell me with what you've just shared with us in the last 50, 45 minutes or so, how. Without feeling boastful, I know you're probably a bit like, oh, I don't want to say that. How does it make you feel? How does the last 12 years make you, Ian, feel?

    29:08

    Well, the first thing, I'm chuffed. I've become more loving and it's. I have more empathy for people going through difficult situations. If you were to say, look, Ian, there's a cancer journey, I would start to ask you questions that a lot of people just dodge it by. Someone's going through a grief journey. It's interesting, as a society, sometimes we avoid talking to people when there's some challenges going on in their life. It could be a broken relationship, it could be the death of a close one or whatever. And at a point where people would probably more appreciate that connection. So it's given me that awareness of that what are the things a concern. And I said the majority of my time through the cancer journey was full of gratitude, but what will happen if I die? Will Katsuki Heroes continue as a legacy? Not for some ego thing for me, but I see the benefits of what it is that we're doing. We looked at putting in place some things.

    30:27

    I've got a co CEO and. Yeah. So, yeah. I'm not sure if I answered your question, how I feel. Pride is. It's not an ego thing, but I think the sense of actually making a positive impact on the world is a great feeling to have. And hopefully that impact. Yes, that fulfills.

    30:52

    Yeah. And does it? I guess if I said the word content.

    30:57

    Yes. There's worse things than dying. And I would die content.

    31:08

    I listened to a podcast about a year ago and there was a Scottish neurologist interviewing an Austrian philosopher who was in his mid to late 70s. And the philosopher was talking about, people are always like, oh, you've got to find your perfect job and then it won't feel like work and you'll be happy all the time. And he said, bah, humbug. I have gone down this road so many times. He said, feeling happiness is an emotion and emotions are fleeting. They come and they Go very quickly, whether it's an emotion we enjoy or one we don't enjoy. But then he said the word content. He said, I am now content with my life. And that feeling follows me. And I'm not striving for happiness because there's some.

    31:57

    I think there's so many young people on social media these days, like pretending to be happy, posting videos or photos that are, you know, faked or AO'd or whatever, or they did, you know, they haven't, you know, used Photoshop or something, but they made the scene look like they're really happy. And then other people are striving for this constantly. And it's just like you're dreaming. It's just. You think, before social media, we didn't run around and do full. People are just wasting their time pretending they're happy and showing other people. Yeah, yeah.

    32:36

    It's like, oh, look at me, I'm eating this meal and I'm here. And it's almost like, as you said, it's a facade they put on and other people feel. All it does is help other people feel, oh, my life's crap. I can't do that stuff. Can I give you a Christian perspective? I want you to share. I see joy and happiness, two totally different things. And to say we should always be happy is absolutely idiotic. We get sick because there's a whole bunch of bad. We get abused, a whole bunch of bad stuff. So it makes sense that our happiness is going to oscillate depending on what happens to us and the circumstances we're in. I. The thing that causes me the greatest sadness at the moment is what's going on in the world, in America. All right, how can I be happy about that situation? In fact, I've had to stop watching it. But from a Christian perspective, we should always feel joyful. No matter what we go through.

    33:30

    We feel this support, this unconditional, loving support, and people can put their own thing around that. So I feel there's important role to feel joy despite the circumstances. But the happiness is an emotion that should fluctuate. And if we. We're just fooling ourselves, we think we should be striving to be happy all the time.

    33:54

    Yeah. And all the social media and like, I say, like, stop watching the thing. I was a bit shocked the other day. We had friends come over last weekend and they usually, like always watching the news kind of people. And the husband said to me, we were just chatting about something, what was going on in the world. And he goes, I don't watch the news anymore. And I was like, wow. Like, I was literally giving him a clap because I haven't watched the news for a really long time. And I said to him, I said, I don't watch it, you know, either. I said, I've got four sons and my wife, and between them, if something goes on in the world that's worthy of me knowing about it, one of them will tell me. And then if I feel that I need to know more about it, I'll go and search it out and read a little bit about it or something like that. And he goes, I'm the same. And he's got four sons. And he goes, yep, they tell me stuff. And I do exactly the same now.

    34:51

    And I was so happy for him that he got to that point now of just like, I'm not watching that stuff anymore. It doesn't bring me joy, happiness. It's. Well, and it's impossible for it to be 100% true. And it doesn't mean. And even if, like 10 journalists are all trying to bring 110% truth to the world, if they were, it's impossible for them to bring 100% truth because it's perspective. It depends what angle you're looking at the story from. And so

    35:28

    look, I think it's far worse the situation than what you said. There's people deliberately trying to distort the truth. And what's that happen? So it's driven through social media for these lies that have been told through media. It drives people further right or further left. And you look at potentially what could happen in America, and it's one of the. There's some people are so rusted on to the leader that you, if you were to say to them, what would you need to hear before you changed your opinion on the leader? Some of them would say, there's nothing you can tell me or show me that would change. That's foolish. And to address that, I've got this model, you've got a wire that almost reaches a couple of extreme points, but doesn't. And the extreme point could be yes, no, it could be left, right, based on what we're talking about or any other thing. And there's a bead on the wire.

    36:25

    And as you and I have this conversation, I might take on board what you've seen and move that one way or the other way, but it never fully gets to be the extreme. So there's always the opportunity to have something adjusted. But that's. We've lost that partly. In some cases, the Leaders are driving which the media, they're actually taking them over, getting rid of them won't talk to us. So it's, it's a pity. Social media is actually destroying a lot of the independent news content that we used to get. And because there's no money, the advertising's got. So I think it's a real issue how do we find out the truth? And yeah, we don't know.

    37:09

    And it's all like you just said, all of the news we hear, regardless of the source, is money driven. It's now social media has a much higher percentage of, you know, news that people consume, but it's still driven. There aren't people on there like you volunteering their time, unpaid to bring the news to the world? I mean there'd be a handful compared to the rest. You know, people are doing their YouTube channels unbiasedly supposedly so they can get views, so they can get paid ads. Like it's, they're still doing it for a living. And even if they try and concentrate on their content being genuine and non biased, they're still on YouTube doing that to try and get views. And it's unfortunate that we're just a money driven society.

    38:03

    The ramifications could be huge. Say one media outlet, for instance, does everything they can to deny climate change and other stuff. So if, let's say climate change is real, we could be doing major, I mean the ramifications could be huge. So it's important that we, yeah, we get to the truth around these things. Let's avoid that.

    38:33

    I hear you. And like I say, it's virtually impossible to know because we're so bombarded with half truths, 98% truths, 5% truths, and how do we now judge, you know, what discern and yeah, it's a very, very interesting world we're in.

    38:54

    Yeah. Look, in my own life there's been things. I've taken a stand on particular things and I've turned out to be wrong in hindsight and happy to acknowledge that we don't always get things right. But again, there's this reluctance for people to take responsibility. It's like this game that gets played where we just keep dodging the truth.

    39:21

    So we talked about mentoring men, Kinsinki heroes. Do you have any new projects on the horizon?

    39:29

    I've got some big dreams. When I grew up, I grew up in a village and we didn't have a telephone as an example, but Mrs. Ryan, three houses down had a telephone. So if we want to make a call, we would take sixpence five cents to the. And we'd take it down, you leave it by the phone and you would make a call. And then if there was a phone call for us, we'd leave Mrs. Ryan's number and she'd come up and tell us it was a phone call. We would know all the neighbors, all the adults around the area and the kids. We'd all get out and play. It was a true village. In fact, I saw this time lapse cartoon recently. And in the first cartoon, there's a mum by the front door and she's got the little boy by the ear. He's got a ball under his arm and she's trying to drag him inside. And I related this mum would say, get out and play. When the street lights come on, you've got to come inside.

    40:35

    So he'd be out physically active with your mates, playing football or cricket or whatever. The latest cartoon shows a fattered kid. This time he's inside the house, mum's by the front door trying to drag him out and he's holding onto his gaming console. So we've lost that ability to have that village connection. I want to re establish that. And one way, like one of the projects we did with Connecting with Kintsugi Heroes was connecting seniors to help address loneliness and isolation. And we ran a Kintsugi workshop for them. We captured their stories, we published books, we ran events, we ran multicultural dinners. I know the audio can't pick this up, but a few weeks ago we ran an art of conversation workshop. We brought seniors in and we went through the process and that was fantastic fun.

    41:25

    So one of my dreams is that nationwide, every fortnight or whatever, in the local community center, local library, a group of people would get together and listen to and share stories and they'd be facilitated there. And part of that I'm being involved with peer support groups, mentoring men. Incredibly powerful. It'd also be a check in opportunity. Doug, how you doing? Last week you said this, how's that situation? How did you know? And as that group gets to build trust and all that, there'd be encouraged vulnerability. And Doug might say, look, to be honest, I'm struggling at the moment. And then there'd be empathy around that. So one of the things, let's re establish the village, let's get people connected.

    42:14

    And is that just targeted at the older population? No, no.

    42:19

    Every year a loneliness report comes out. All they do is produce the report, they measure loneliness and the overall rates are increasing. One of the surprises and incredibly sad aspects, the last report I Saw it was relatively even levels of loneliness and isolation across all the age demographics. The biggest one was 18 to 24. I talked about as a kid that score would have been much higher with physically. I mean there's a. There's definite relationship between physical exercise and mental health. And we were doing all this stuff and you know I think there's a number of aspects of food we eat small process. You know, there's a whole bunch of other stuff. There's. But what's going on with that? And I'm guessing it's social media. Like most people get involved in some organized sport or whatever. Those rates are dropping off.

    43:22

    That age group would probably go attend in person universities or whatever call it now there's a lot more people doing that online. So we're losing that ability to have these conversations. So this could be. And it made sense not to have these events just for one age demographic. You look overseas in Scandinavia they have the multi generational. My wife's half Italian. They would have their. What they call them but the non or whatever would come in and would live with them. My daughter and three grandkids here at the moment. But it's that we're losing. I want to reestablish that. And there's a lot that there's been programs where students have gone into old people's homes and they start to hear the stories and it's incredibly beneficial. Psychologist I was on a panel with her, Susan Granade, she did that program on tv. Old aged people with young kids. And the benefit was brilliant. It was a win win.

    44:35

    The old people's physical capability, their mental capability, their happiness in life increased. The young kids, every aspect increased as well.

    44:46

    So I'm pretty sure I saw that or something very like it. And it was. It went on for once a week or whatever. They would meet and they paired them up like an older person to a younger. Yeah, it was brilliant show.

    44:57

    Yeah, it was so cool I think was the name of the person. So yeah, they did it. They increased the ages. So why don't we get more of those events happening and yeah, so there's some dreams around that. What I've seen on this journey as well, high levels of empathy. And I was talking to this incredible woman, Mia Bannister in Queensland. A couple of weeks ago her son suicided and she set up a charity, Ollie's Echo. She was one of the key lobbyists to. Because he was being bullied through social media was to lobby the government to have the ban on social media. And we can have different thoughts on whether that is a good thing or bad thing. But the fact was, she was doing this. So I want to do a series around loss of a child. I want to do a series around cancer journeys. We do a series around men about to become dads for the first time. There's a lot of support for women, but not much support for men.

    46:05

    Women go through a whole bunch of physical, mental, emotional men. There's a baby, and it's like, things change. I'll never be the same again. And we'll do indigenous stories, gender diversity stories. So there's. It's okay. I want to do all these things. And how do you manage all that and get funding and support for all that? So. But that's.

    46:29

    Yeah.

    46:30

    So they're the dreams that I want to do.

    46:32

    Yeah. And as we've been talking now for 45 minutes, like, I've been experiencing your highs and lows, like, emotions. I've been on the edge of a tear coming out of my eye a couple of times. So I can only imagine this last 12 years for you has been so radically different to your priorities years. You know, 40 years of work, like, with the emotions. And. And so some people would see that as, oh, I couldn't handle all that. But it's so. I'm sure fulfilling or whatever the word is. Yeah, satisfying.

    47:05

    I've got a vivid memory. So I spent probably three months in hospital last year, so metastasized melanoma, brain tumors and tumors in other parts of my body. I went on immunotherapy and I went on what. The first round didn't work. They put me on what they called the sledgehammer, and I got the worst case of colitis they'd seen. I was going to toilet 20 times a day. I dropped 20 kilos in six weeks. And what I didn't realize, I lost the ability to walk properly. So I met. I was riding 150km a week on my bike, and now around the hospital, I needed to get a walker to get around. And you think, wow, that's tough. I remember being in the shower. I had a few falls holding on to these bars with the hot water running over me, crying with gratitude. I can't explain it for the hot water, for the hospital and the medical system we have in Australia. And that attitude continued on all the way through that. I've got out of hospital. I've been through rehab.

    48:25

    I can now walk a few kilometers and I'm riding over 100ks a week at the moment. So indoors, I can't ride outdoors. I'd fall off my bike.

    48:34

    Well, and on LinkedIn a month or two ago you put a post on Share that one because I just shook my head when I read that.

    48:43

    So my, my wife said we, we love bike riding. I love balance. I've had a few bad falls and I went down to Melbourne. So I'm based in Sydney. I went to Melbourne to catch up with the Kinsuki Heroes team down there. We had a great catch up and I said to let's go for a bike ride. I'm not going to ride on the road but we'll find a safe bike trail. And we knew a few of them before. So we went down to Wonthagi and there's a beautiful trail. You ride from Bonthagi, which is down on the Bass coast, through Kilkunda and up into the hills and you cross the road. But the rest of it's on a wide bike track. But along that track because there's farms and they put like a fence across the track, the livestock to go through and they have like a. Well, a narrow gate. And I'd say narrow, any reasonable cyclist should be able to ride through that with that falling off. But anyway, I rode through, hit this steel post on one side.

    49:43

    It broke my finger and I heard my ribs crack. I thought it was one, but turned out to be two. And my wife was in front. She'd ridden through the gate and I stopped and cried out in pain. And then I've got this weird thing when I'm feeling nauseous. I have something bad happen. I stopped breathing. I jumped out of an airplane. One same thing happened, I passed out. Anyway, another story. So she knows what's going to go on. So she gets me, got me to lie down and then I just collapsed and stopped breathing. Something temporary. Then your body amazing kicks in. She put me in the recovery position and I don't know why. She took a photo of me spread eagle in the recovery position and I put it on LinkedIn and like 80,000 people, 80,000 impressions. I said to the team, oh look, we want to build our media profile. I need to injure myself every week. But it was. Yeah. So that slowed me down a bit. I haven't written actually.

    50:56

    I rode the next day at another track. I'm very determined but I haven't ridden outside since. I won't ride on the roads in Sydney. Just too dangerous. But I've got an indoor bike,

    51:09

    new

    51:09

    Strava and Zwift right around the world. So that's the goal. But I'm planning at the rate I'm improving, probably in two or three months time I'll be game enough to get back outside and ride outside again.

    51:22

    But on that day when you did pass out and your wife took the photo of you, did you get back on the bike and finish the ride?

    51:29

    We weren't even halfway and she said, well, I'll call an ambulance. No, no, no. Something turned out, a couple of broken ribs, but I got back on roads as far as you could ride to the end of the trail, this woolamai and then turn around and came back. But I, each time we came into one of those gates, I'd stop, get off the bike. So my time was terrible. You pick up. I'm incredibly competitive and the time was appalling. But I got back unscathed. Yeah.

    52:00

    So you're still, you're still living.

    52:02

    I'm still living loving life. And I said, we did this party staying alive. I hate the BG's, that era of the BG's music. But it was, I was up on stage, I made a speech, but my son cued and we had Staying Alive. My wife's up there on the stage doing the dance. Everyone's going crazy. And it just shared a bit of the journey and hopefully with a bit of humor and yeah, it was great. Life, life is good.

    52:37

    All right, so a lot of people have heard you on podcasts and hear you talk and they're, you know, your story and I'm hearing more today than I've heard on any others, which is great. But can you tell us one thing about you that most people wouldn't know? Nothing too private or anything like that, but what's something just, you know, people who've known you for years and you might say, well, da, da, da da. And they might go, wow, I never knew that about Ian.

    53:08

    I notice it. I'm with Constitute Heroes is collaborating with the Sydney based organization to run a talent quest for seniors on Easter Saturday. And it's. I've learned so much from these projects. We do it and this is to encourage seniors to show some of their talent to whether it be art or poetry or music or whatever. And yesterday I put an entry in to do a standup comedian thing at the event in Annadale in Sydney. Now I think I've got a gsoh, my kids and grand oh, another dad joke and all, but I'm going to give it a crack. So I've never, I was like, I've made. As the journey's gone on, I've made a lot of speeches. I made one the other other day. So I'm going to get up and hopefully be a friendly audience. So I'm going to. I've got some jokes in mind actually. You're talking about fake news the other day I sent a joke over to America about 12 months ago, one of the talk shows and I've got to remember that.

    54:25

    But I thought they'd send me back some money but they didn't. But it was the White House have advised that wolves wearing sheep outfits on the White House gardens. They found out it was only fake ewes. But I don't know if Americans understand what a ewe is and what. But anyway, you can probably understand no money came back and nothing happened with it. But anyway, fake fake years.

    55:00

    So you're going to try your hand at stand up comedy?

    55:04

    I am. I've got now if I say I'm going to do something, I do it. Hopefully it'll be a very friendly audience. But yeah. So if anyone's in the Annandale area, I've got a few funny jokes. People laugh.

    55:20

    And your wife will be there to video it?

    55:23

    Yeah, there's people I put a post up post up on social media yesterday and people around Intersphen, even overseas. I wish we were there. But the trouble is if she videos it, I won't be able to control what she does with it.

    55:39

    Well, rather than video it, she could just live stream would be even better. So you don't get the chance to get a phone and delete it.

    55:50

    It's funny. She's a real hoop like we've had Obviously all the 21st, the 18th and you're probably old enough to remember the Three Stooges.

    56:00

    Oh yeah.

    56:01

    So at one of the kids parties there was. I think it was Larry or Curly would get down on the floor and go in a circle on his side. He did that like she's a dancer and the kids just went crazy. They thought it was hilarious.

    56:15

    This was at your party?

    56:16

    No, not at one of the kids 21st or 18th party we had at our place and I mean our kids were embarrassed but all their friends thought this is really cool. He's the mother or grandmother on the floor going round and round in circle. So she could do that. So yeah, that's.

    56:35

    Yeah. So if she can do that, you can do stand up comedy for the first time live streamed live. You can do this as a fundraiser. Like you chip in five bucks and you get. You get the code to watch Ian walk through.

    56:49

    Well, I love how You. Well, Kentucky Heroes could do some money,

    56:52

    but yeah, there you go. There's a fundraiser in it as well. Yeah, we'll milk it for everything we can get.

    57:00

    Great idea.

    57:01

    Yeah. And what, what have you got to lose? Yeah.

    57:05

    But there's a lot of power and vulnerability to the superpower. And I remember with mentoring men, we ran a two day workshop which helped me identify the skills most of them already had. And I was the founder, CEO, but I didn't develop the workshop. This other guy, in fact, the guy who told me the name Kintsuki and I saw on the second day of the workshop, he had this talking circle and when I looked at it, I thought, this is going to suck. I don't want to do this. So the rules, and these are incredibly powerful. The talking circle. So you've got a group of people. We're fortunate. This is the second day where trust had been built. People knew each other, but a lot of activities. But in the talking circle, there's an object, there's head around, so there's glue stick. And the rules are it's given to someone and you share what you're feeling, not thinking what you're feeling. If you wanted to pass, you just say pass and give it to the next person.

    58:07

    And the rule is no one interrupts, no one comments. You just share what's going on in you emotionally. And I thought this is totally different to the corporate environment you put on the facade. And to be honest, I didn't want to do it. Even though I'm the founder, I thought I would probably have said pass the very first guy. I miss my dad. He starts talking about his dad had passed away, the relationship he had with his dad. Next person. I can't get access to my kids. My mum gambled away a house. And then by the time it got to me, there was, there were tears, but there was support and all that sort of stuff and that ability to be yourself, whether it be a standup comedian or something else with. I guess in this case it was people you know and people you trust and all that. So stuff. But it's, there's a lot of power in that. Rip off the facade and yeah, I think I'm funny. We'll soon find out.

    59:16

    If, if you decide this is a new career path for you, I can send you a link. I've had a gentleman on the podcast before who for a living teaches improv comedy. He's in, he's in Los Angeles and Great guy, really good guy. Yeah, it's what he does for A living. And he was doing it. But then when Covid hit it, he started teaching online a lot. When he does. Does do it live, obviously. But, yeah, nice. He brings. Yeah. So, like, I've got the contacts there for you, and if you want to, you know, how long away is the. Another week or two.

    59:50

    Yeah. Saturday week and so forth.

    59:52

    You might be able to get a couple of online lessons.

    59:56

    I see this really old guy on the Internet and he makes all these jokes about age, and one of them is if you have your soul animal, you see. Oh, my soul animal is extinct,

    1:00:08

    actually now I'm just thinking about it. He does do improv comedy. But what they do as well is three or four of them will stand on the stage with the audience, and the audience will yell out like three words, three random words that don't go together. And like 60 seconds later, these three or four actors improv just start doing a skit where they haven't even collaborated. They just. One of them will just start talking about one of those three words, and they have to bring those three random words into the whole skit, you know. And so for the next five or 10 minutes, they're doing this. And there's rules they've got. You can't put anyone down. You've got to be. It's got to be uplifting to, you know, you can't put anyone in a compromising situation. But, you know, like, I'm. If I started, I might pretend that you're a police sergeant and you're like. And you have to get the gifts that you're a police sergeant for what I just said.

    1:01:05

    And then you have to, you know, it's on the fly. Yeah. And again, a lot of people just, like, gobsmacked, can't cannot believe that there was no pre collaboration on how it was going to flow.

    1:01:18

    That's probably too. I'm doing 101. Did you want to hear one of the jokes?

    1:01:24

    Go for it. Go for it.

    1:01:25

    Okay. So this mum trying to encourage her son to eat the broccoli that's on his plate, and he just refuses. He pushes and pushes, and he's about 6 years old, and he said, mom, I hate broccoli. It smells terrible. I'm never going to eat it. And she gives up. The dad goes over and whispers something in the son's ear. He scoffs all the broccoli down, asks for some more. Mum dishes up more. And he eats all that as well. And then the son goes off to do his homework. And the mum says to the dad, what did you say to him? And he said, I told him if he eats his broccoli his penis will grow longer. And she just whacks him across the face really hard. He said, why did you do that? And she said, because you'd never ate your broccoli when you were young.

    1:02:24

    That'll work. That'll get laugh. That'll work. Is that your opener?

    1:02:34

    I don't know, I've got sort of. I don't know, I don't know how long. The main focus is these. In fact, I've seen some of the entries already. Incredible. Like there's so many talented people out there. They're writing poems, they're singing songs and they're paintings and all that sort of stuff. So maybe, hopefully mine is light relief to that. But we'd like, I mean imagine this. So this is. So this is the second year of this. But imagine something like this all around Australia. I've got some other big dreams around this place, but maybe let's save it for another podcast. But I would, I'd love. I want to get the communities back together again, re establish, get people talking, supporting. That's where we want to end.

    1:03:26

    Yeah. And out where I live, like we're a little bit where everyone's on acreage and there's a Facebook sort of group and I, the last year or so I haven't been on it that much because when you go on Facebook you don't see the posts anymore. You just see ads all the time. But yeah, it's a very community orientated sort of thing and people get together, you know, like I remember when the Commonwealth Games were on, when the cycle racing was on, it was on our road and we're, we're like at a dead end road. So for the day all the residents at the end of the road were blocked off from the world, like there was nowhere to go. So one of the guys sort of came on and said, well, who wants to get together for a barbecue? Because none of us can go to work, we can't do anything because we're excluded from the world for the day. So it was just. Oh yeah, okay. So people just all got together and. But only because something like that happened.

    1:04:21

    And then also too, when we get massive storms around here, we get land slips and stuff and we get blocked in for a couple of days sometimes before the floodwaters go down and the council can come with their front end loaders and get rid of a meter of mud off the road. But it's great because we're prepared for it. We know it's likely to happen. We have plenty of food and everyone's got. And everyone shares and people just drive around to each other's houses and because there's no electricity, so they can't ring anybody, so people just turn up at people's houses. And we're back to 40 years ago where we lived overseas until eight or nine years ago on a tiny little island in the middle of nowhere. And when we were preparing to come back, our adult children were starting to prepare, my wife and I for life back in Australia. And there were rules. Dad, you do not ring people.

    1:05:12

    You text them first and then you ring, and then if they're available, they ring. You do not go to people's houses without them knowing you're coming. You know, like all these different things and we're like, oh, because we'd been overseas for like 15 years and they've gone. The world's changed. You know, you've been back to Australia for a week or two at a time and, you know, you've been busy and you've been seeing all the family and everyone's ready waiting for you. But. But, you know, and it's like, oh. So we had to adjust, you know, and. Well, because we were told it's just not. You just don't do these random things. Do not lob up at our house without free texting that you're coming and us approved, you know, and it was just. And I've sort of found that's how life is now. It's. It. It had evolved while we were away and we did. When we were living on this tiny little island, we didn't even have Internet that worked. Hardly at all.

    1:06:05

    You know, if you want to open a web page, you have to go and make a cup of coffee while it opens. So we were detached from the new life cycle. And so I get why you're wanting to go back to those things, because that's far more fulfilling and purposeful and enjoyable and beneficial to the people involved. The isolation of the texting is not fun at all.

    1:06:30

    I guess I can understand what your kids were saying. I disagree. I think it's dangerous. It could be someone on their own. The kids think maybe they're struggling. There's been. Someone close to them has died and they're grieving. You ring them, they mightn't answer the phone. You don't. They're not going to answer a text. But if you stand up on the doorstep with a meal or some donuts or something, and it's okay. It could be, look, of course you're hungry, go away. Or you probably find they then invite you in and that could be a really important conversation. So, yeah, I've got concerns about this thing we're only going to. None of these impromptu things. Horses for corsets. I looked at the events. Sometimes it makes sense on the planet, let people know when all that. But there'd be other cases where that could have serious consequences if you follow those rules.

    1:07:34

    Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess they were just sort of trying to be caring that, you know, you don't offend people because people have changed how they communicate now. And it's like, oh, okay, this is random and different. And I remember when my, when we first got married, my mum would lob up once or twice a week about seven in the morning and some of we'd be. Fortunately we lived sort of halfway down a hill and she had squeaky breaks. We would hear it and we'd both, if we were both still in bed, we'd look at each other and go, oh boy, Mum's here. We could jump out and get dressed, you know, Everyone Loves Raymond.

    1:08:12

    Sort of.

    1:08:16

    Yeah, yeah. And like you're talking about with telephones too. Before that was. I remember when we were, when I was 16, I've got a brother who's 12 years older and he was backpacking around Europe at the time. Well, we didn't have a phone, so he would ring the neighbor and then hang up and say, I'll ring back in, you know, can you get Mum? And I'll ring back in five minutes. So she would yell out off the balcony, rita, Rita. Like your son's, your son's going to ring back in a minute from Iceland. So we would run over there and sort of sit, sit there and wait for the phone to ring again. And then, you know, the, the big delays, you know, and that sort of thing in the, in the calls. But yeah, we never, I think I had my first job and I said to Mum when I was, I was about 16, I said, if I pay for half the phone, can we get one please?

    1:09:04

    You know, so, because I remember she would be, sometimes she'd be sick and couldn't go to work and she'd hand me a piece of paper and a 10 cent coin and it was a phone number. And I'd have to get on my bike and ride up to, around the, to the phone box and ring her boss and say, you know, my mum's too sick to come to work today. And one of them. She used to clean houses. One of the people she's cleaned the house, he was a doctor. So I'd ring before seven and say, you know, this is Rita's son and she's sick and she wants to know if you can come and visit her on the way to work because she's really sick. And he would. He like, you know, he was very, very good like that. Yeah. But yeah, I'm riding on. We didn't have the phone.

    1:09:46

    The public phones, of course had the A and B buttons back then. And you press the B, I think to get your money back. We had a. At that time, no phone, outside dunny. I don't know if like it's. It sounds gross. There were six of us in the family and the dunny was. Did I. You would just. Outside toilet pan empty once a week. Anyway, this grosses me out. We never had a fridge. There used to be an ice box so that there'd be an iceman would come down with a block of ice each week. And you'd have a thing called a meat safe. So you put the meat in this tin cabinet which had vents on it. And I don't know how, but the meat wouldn't go off. Like it would last. So yeah, you look at the well we've got now, but the kids, the people were happy back then. Like, you know, it's. There was lots more. All the social interaction, which happens a lot less in a lot of the neighborhoods we're in.

    1:10:41

    Yeah, I remember the baker delivering the bread and mum would say, get one and a half loaves. And I loved it when we got a half loaf because he would tear it in half. And as I was walking it back into the house, all the fresh, you know, standard was there and you pick it out and eat it. Mama be yelling out from the top of the stairs, stop picking at that bread.

    1:11:02

    The milk deliveries we had, there was a horse and car and the horse, when you cook, like a Drysdale thing, it would just go the same slow pace that knew it. He'd be running with the bottles back then. And.

    1:11:15

    Yeah, so I'm nine years younger than you, so I missed some of that. But our neighbor, she, poor lady, she was in her 70s in a two story house, you know, and only upstairs was livable. Downstairs was just dirt. And she had an outside toilet, like into a 70. So she would have to come in winter down the stairs into the backyard. No electricity in there because I remember a few times we'd go over and visit and I'd Go and use it. And I'd be like, oh, this is. We had an inside toilet. But she didn't. And I was like, wow, this is crazy. A bit of sawdust there to sort of throw on top of it. The guy coming around once a week with his fresh black bucket to swap it over.

    1:11:53

    Yeah, he'd put it on his. His head. He'd have a. Like a Cooper hat. And he put the thing on and I never saw it. The story was one of the pans rusted out through the bottom. And. I don't know how we got here, though, but that's.

    1:12:11

    It's evolved. Evolved. So another question I've got for you probably haven't been asked this one hardly at all, but I personally in my life have overcome a lot of fears and I do have a lot of fears and I recognize them. I'm just curious, what's your biggest fear as a kid?

    1:12:32

    It used to be diet fear of death. Interestingly, how that's progressed. I mean, I went through stages of fearing that no one would want me. This is a teenager who'd want to marry me sort of thing. And so they were like real fears there that helped drive lack of confidence. So I had an older brother, he was a bit mean, passed away now. But he would tell me, oh, you're so ugly, you must take ugly pills. There was all this sort of stuff that I guess brothers can say, but I was a sensitive kid and so there's a bunch of things like that. But now I've got a healthy fear of don't go out and ride your bike outside on the road because a car might hit you because you're going to fall off. I can take the drink bottle out on the bike, but I can't put it back in. When I look down and put it back in, I go almost at right angles to the right. So it's like. It'd be nuts. So I guess there's a sane fear. But I honestly can't think of any fears that I've got now.

    1:13:58

    Yeah, good. And I relate to the. One of the. Being a teenager and thinking I'm never going to have a girlfriend because out of my group of friends, I pretty much was definitely the last one to ever have a girlfriend. And it seemed to me like I would never get one. But my first date was actually on my 16th birthday. And now you would think, well, gee, that was very young. But at the time it seemed like I was an old man because at 14, all my friends were starting to have girlfriends for a Week or three weeks, you know, but at least they had the experience of it. And I was so ridiculously afraid of rejection, particularly from a girl, because I knew if I got rejected once, I probably would never be game to try again. And my mate actually asked out this girl and he, he knew that I'd been watching it from afar for months.

    1:15:02

    He like, you know, he already was the right girl to ask out and so he went and asked her out, said, hey, how about you come out on a double date tonight for Doug, it's his birthday. So off we go. And I was very angry at him, but extremely happy with him that he did it, but angry that he'd sort of overstepped that mark, but very thankful. And then we sort of went out and we were, she was still 15, I was 16 and we went at Broadbeach here on the Gold Coast. It was a nightclub. We went there and in those days they let us in. So we got in there and sort of sat and then she kissed me. I'm just like. And we are still together today.

    1:15:45

    Wow.

    1:15:46

    I've never, I've never asked a girl out. I like, my mate did it, she kissed me. I was like over the moon. And see, I would, I would have been, I was too scared to ask her. Yeah, once there was no rejection, you know, like there was obviously not going to get rejected for trying to kiss her because she was kissing me. I was hooked and like, boom. You know, you couldn't stop me kissing her then. And. Yeah, but those fears are phenomenal things in our lives that, you know, you look at. Yeah.

    1:16:22

    So my wife initiated the contact with me. So I, I, I played a lot of squash. I used to play state grade squash and she, she was a state grade player as well. And I used to import squash rackets as one of the businesses on the site. A whole lot of other stories there. But she rang me to see if she could get a squash racket. We, we decided we'd go and have a game of squash together and then from there we just non stop going out. And I think six weeks later I asked her to marry me and she said no. And I just kept asking until she lowered her standards. And then that was 42 years ago. 43 coming up.

    1:17:06

    Yeah. That you got together or got married.

    1:17:08

    Got married.

    1:17:08

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we've been with 41 and a half years, but yeah, because we were only, we were both 20 when we got married. Yeah, yeah. But we'd been going out for four and a half years, so we did know each other. But yeah, yeah, wonderful.

    1:17:26

    Things have changed.

    1:17:27

    Yeah, yeah. So I've loved our conversation for the men listening. We've talked about some synchronistic moments where these invisible benevolent forces have been dropping things on your lap or shining a light on things to highlight in a way that you're going to grasp it. And we've talked about the benefits that you've experienced in your life. Is there any before we wind up? I will have your contact details in the show notes. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you would like to mention?

    1:18:02

    No. Gone the other way, Jack. We've talked about a whole bunch of things I didn't know we were going to talk about, from outside dunnies to our current dates and all that sort of stuff. But it's been great. You've got a love the style. It's incredibly relaxed. Just a couple of blokes chatting about thoughts and history and things like that. So thank you.

    1:18:22

    That's why it's called Intuitive Conversations with Doug. Yeah, and that's what started out just like my kids. Actually, it's been going for four plus years. Probably about eight years ago, my boys started saying to me, dad, you have to start a podcast. You love talking.

    1:18:38

    Go finish on a. A true story. That was funny. So we met some, some Americans on a cruise and they invited us to come back and stay with them in Montana. And they then took us around, they drove us around to all the national parks and all the highlights around that area. Beautiful area of the states. Although they've got some roadstril issues and all that sort of stuff there. Anyway, we finish up, we walk down this sidewalk and there's, you know, someone got hung there. Like it's one of the oldest towns. He was shot here. He was hung. We finish up in the saloon for lunch and on the menu they've got one of the things out there was Cornish pasties. And I said, well, what are your Cornish pasties like? And the waiter said, oh, good. And so I ordered one and then she came back after me. Why don't you think of our Cornish pasties? I said, oh, just like my mum used to make. Oh, wow, that is so kind of you to say that. I said, not really.

    1:19:43

    My mum was a terrible cook and Americans love Australian accents. They love the sense of humor. Like people had all been listening to this and just. It was a very, very funny, funny situation. So let's British honor we go from Danny's to a true story.

    1:20:04

    That's another joke for you for Saturday week. Yeah. Excellent, excellent. How many jokes you got to tell?

    1:20:10

    I don't know. I'd like to check with the time frame, but I got four or five ones. That was like a true story, but I guess it's funny so I can tell that as well.

    1:20:19

    The broccoli one. You mean before was the true story?

    1:20:25

    Unfortunately, we couldn't afford broccoli when I was a kid.

    1:20:29

    All right, Ian, thank you very, very much for your time.

    1:20:32

    Okay, thanks, Doug. Great chat. See you.

    1:20:35

    Well, we're at the end of another thought provoking episode. Remember to subscribe so you'll be alerted to new episodes. I want to say thank you to the men who are joining me on this journey of intuitive development. I truly hope our time together has expanded expanded your reality and reinforced trust in your ever reliable gut feeling. Embrace your intuition. It will not lead you astray. Until next time, stay tuned, stay curious and trust your gut.

    197 | From IT Manager to Saving Lives: Ian Westmoreland on Men's Mental Health & Purpose

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